Episode 3
This Field Is Never Boring
Karli Yeoman, Expedia, Senior Accessibility Engineer
Karli Yeoman talks about her foundation background as a web developer. She describes the approach at Expedia for helping teams and individuals to bring accessibility into their project work.
Mentioned in this episode:
Info about Accessibility at Blink
Transcript
(uplifting music)
Speaker:- Hello, this is Digital Accessibility.
Speaker:The People Behind the Progress.
Speaker:I'm Joe Wolinsky, the creator and host of this series
Speaker:and as an accessibility professional myself,
Speaker:I find it very interesting as to how others
Speaker:have found their way into this profession.
Speaker:So let's meet one of those people right now
Speaker:and hear about their journey.
Speaker:(uplifting music)
Speaker:All right, well, let's get started
Speaker:and I'm happy to be visiting today with Karli Yeoman.
Speaker:Hello, Karli, how are you today?
Speaker:- Good. How are you?
Speaker:- I'm good; most of the time,
Speaker:I'm at my home office on Vashon Island, near Seattle,
Speaker:which is also near Blink's headquarters in downtown Seattle.
Speaker:Where are you talking to us from today?
Speaker:- I'm in Seattle as well.
Speaker:I'm in the west Seattle neighborhood of Seattle.
Speaker:- All right. Excellent.
Speaker:That's a fun neighborhood.
Speaker:Not too far for me, except with a ferry ride in between.
Speaker:- Yep. - Well, it's good
Speaker:to have you involved here today
Speaker:and to learn a little bit about your journey
Speaker:to what you're doing today,
Speaker:but why don't we start with that?
Speaker:What's your current position
Speaker:and what are the types of things you're involved with?
Speaker:- Yeah, thanks for having me here today.
Speaker:I'm super excited to be part of this.
Speaker:I'm a member of Expedia Group's Digital Accessibility Team.
Speaker:Technically my title is Accessibility Engineer,
Speaker:because I have a web development background,
Speaker:but I do kind of a little bit of everything.
Speaker:We have a pretty small accessibility team,
Speaker:so we do pretty much anything needed
Speaker:to empower the company to make accessible digital products.
Speaker:So, I run and build trainings.
Speaker:I build documentation as well as internal guidelines.
Speaker:I run our internal Accessibility Champions Network
Speaker:so that we can really spread our knowledge out.
Speaker:I also complete assessments
Speaker:of both our webpages and our apps,
Speaker:and then I just implement processes
Speaker:across a development life cycle
Speaker:to make sure that we're thinking about accessibility
Speaker:at all points, whether it's product or design
Speaker:or development or test.
Speaker:- Yeah, well, it's great to be chatting
Speaker:with somebody from Expedia.
Speaker:I think that's one of those companies where,
Speaker:beyond people knowing the name,
Speaker:it's likely that most of us have used it in some way.
Speaker:So I don't know if that puts extra pressure
Speaker:on the types of things that you do or not.
Speaker:- Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:I mean, I think travel's a really, really important thing,
Speaker:and I think it's something that everybody
Speaker:should be able to do.
Speaker:So making sure that we are allowing that
Speaker:and making sure that our products
Speaker:are being able to be used by everybody,
Speaker:I think is really important.
Speaker:- Yeah, and it's certainly, you know,
Speaker:your product is in one of those situations
Speaker:where you definitely want everyone to be able to use it,
Speaker:and we will talk more about the things that you're doing
Speaker:at Expedia, but the theme of this program
Speaker:is to just kind of find out the journey
Speaker:that brought people to where they are today.
Speaker:So, well, let me just hand it off to you.
Speaker:You know, what's the starting point?
Speaker:What were some of the things that kind of built
Speaker:to bring you to where you're at today?
Speaker:- Yeah, so, when I entered college,
Speaker:I really had no idea what I wanted to do with my life.
Speaker:I knew that I enjoyed math and logic,
Speaker:but I actually ended up majoring in astronomy and physics.
Speaker:But when it came towards the end of college
Speaker:and I started thinking about my career,
Speaker:I realized I just wasn't passionate about it.
Speaker:So, I took some extra web development classes
Speaker:my last few years,
Speaker:and really started working in backend web development
Speaker:when I graduated.
Speaker:The first couple years, I think partly
Speaker:because I was focused on backend,
Speaker:but I think, unfortunately,
Speaker:digital accessibility just wasn't talked about that much
Speaker:still at that point.
Speaker:So, at that point I still really hadn't even heard of it.
Speaker:I barely knew what it was, but in 2014,
Speaker:I was actually working for a contracting company
Speaker:and starting to expand to Full Stack
Speaker:and focusing more on front end development.
Speaker:And they actually placed me at Expedia
Speaker:as they were starting their accessibility team.
Speaker:So, I was kind of thrown into the deep end,
Speaker:straight into this new accessibility team
Speaker:that was getting created with pretty much zero knowledge
Speaker:of digital accessibility.
Speaker:But luckily I had some really great teammates
Speaker:that had more experience,
Speaker:than I did that taught me a ton,
Speaker:as well as a lot of coworkers with disabilities
Speaker:that really provided perspective for me,
Speaker:showed me how to use assistive technologies.
Speaker:Really showed me what went into all of that
Speaker:and all the struggles that they've had.
Speaker:And I fell in love with the field
Speaker:and became so passionate in it.
Speaker:I'm now seven years into that at Expedia Group.
Speaker:I've had a ton of learnings. I'm still growing.
Speaker:But this feels like kind of the perfect marriage
Speaker:between being able to do what I love,
Speaker:which is web development,
Speaker:but also making an impact in people's lives,
Speaker:which is something that I felt like I was missing.
Speaker:So I just, I love that accessibility allows me to do both.
Speaker:- Well, let's not let the seven years go by
Speaker:without like dipping into some parts of it
Speaker:in a little bit more detail.
Speaker:But yeah, so you had a developer background.
Speaker:That was an area that you were involved with from the start.
Speaker:Had accessibility come up in the things that you were doing
Speaker:before you got involved in Expedia?
Speaker:Was it anything that was talked about
Speaker:or that you felt you had to learn about before that point?
Speaker:- Honestly, it really hadn't.
Speaker:I mean, since I didn't major in computer science,
Speaker:I only took a few classes in college,
Speaker:but none of those touched on it at all.
Speaker:The contracting company I was working for,
Speaker:before then, we had members of the company
Speaker:that were in accessibility and were focused on that.
Speaker:So I'd heard little bits through the grapevine from them
Speaker:and kind of had gotten an idea of what it was,
Speaker:but as for actually how to make an experience accessible
Speaker:and what actually goes into that?
Speaker:Before I joined Expedia, I pretty much was at zero.
Speaker:- All right. Well, good.
Speaker:I mean the reason we're good in that,
Speaker:the reason I ask about things like that is, you know,
Speaker:just always looking to figure out how,
Speaker:in our profession, we can move forward.
Speaker:And yeah, I think it's important for everyone
Speaker:to evangelize it as broadly as possible
Speaker:within their organization,
Speaker:just so that anybody who has touchpoints
Speaker:with our customers can find out if in fact
Speaker:there is something that they need to do.
Speaker:I'm guessing there probably were things,
Speaker:now that you knew you could have been attentive to,
Speaker:but you didn't know at the time.
Speaker:- Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker:When I look back on things that I created
Speaker:before that point in time,
Speaker:and it's almost upsetting thinking about the information
Speaker:that I didn't have and the knowledge I didn't have,
Speaker:and the users that I was blocking from using the software
Speaker:that I was creating.
Speaker:So, I mean, I'm glad that I finally had my eyes
Speaker:opened to that, but I think there's definitely still
Speaker:a long way to go in this field,
Speaker:making sure that everybody does understand that.
Speaker:- Well, then when you came in to Expedia,
Speaker:did you say that there was an accessibility component
Speaker:to that position from the start?
Speaker:- Yeah, so we had just created
Speaker:our first accessibility team and I joined as that,
Speaker:as starting out the team.
Speaker:There was me and two other members of the team,
Speaker:all just starting it up.
Speaker:The other two both had,
Speaker:one is a coworker with a disability
Speaker:and the other had a pretty long history
Speaker:of working in digital accessibility.
Speaker:So I learned a ton from them, but yeah,
Speaker:I was the only one that was starting from scratch.
Speaker:- Well, everybody has to start somewhere.
Speaker:And so again, I think it's interesting
Speaker:how people find their way
Speaker:and gather that information.
Speaker:And so when you came into that position,
Speaker:it was great that you had a couple of people
Speaker:that were able to mentor you at that point.
Speaker:But what were some of the things
Speaker:that you actually kind of had to work through?
Speaker:What were some of the challenges early on about
Speaker:how you learned about things,
Speaker:or was there a certain approach that
Speaker:your mentors brought in,
Speaker:or priorities in getting you up to speed?
Speaker:- Yeah, I mean, I think it was kind of everything.
Speaker:So I had a web development background,
Speaker:but even with that, it was backend,
Speaker:so I was even still kind of learning front end development
Speaker:and learning how to do HTML and CSS.
Speaker:So, it kind of actually almost helped in a way
Speaker:that I didn't have a whole lot ingrained in me already
Speaker:because I got to learn how to do it accessibly
Speaker:from the beginning from them.
Speaker:But because I was learning the job,
Speaker:I think in a way that's actually helped me in my career
Speaker:because I've gone through the struggles
Speaker:that I see other members of my company going through,
Speaker:and how confusing accessibility can be at the beginning
Speaker:and how it can feel very, very complicated.
Speaker:And knowing now what I know and knowing
Speaker:that it doesn't have to be that way
Speaker:and learning how to kind of demystify that
Speaker:was something that my coworkers
Speaker:were really helpful with and kind of teaching me
Speaker:along the way,
Speaker:how it doesn't have to be this big, scary thing
Speaker:that a lot of people think it might be.
Speaker:But yeah, I think just learning as I worked through it
Speaker:and figuring out the best ways to explain things,
Speaker:whether it's from a design perspective
Speaker:or from a development perspective.
Speaker:And so learning that as well.
Speaker:Learning the design side of it has been a big thing for me.
Speaker:Learning how to do designs with accessibility included
Speaker:and what that looks like, I think is important.
Speaker:But kind of, yeah,
Speaker:just learning all the different steps
Speaker:and how accessibility needs to be handled
Speaker:in each step of the development life cycle
Speaker:has been super helpful.
Speaker:- And how is accessibility
Speaker:brought into the process at Expedia?
Speaker:I guess I usually kind of are looking
Speaker:for a couple of things.
Speaker:One is organizationally
Speaker:whether you're sort of in a department
Speaker:that is responsible for its own things,
Speaker:and there are other people in other departments
Speaker:responsible for their part?
Speaker:Or is there more of something across the organization
Speaker:that guides accessibility?
Speaker:- Yeah, so, I'm on our internal Digital Accessibility Team.
Speaker:So we kind of handle digital accessibility
Speaker:for the entire company,
Speaker:but we wanna make sure
Speaker:that we're not actually doing the work for them.
Speaker:So when it comes to designing,
Speaker:we don't actually get in there and get hands-on
Speaker:and do the designs.
Speaker:We don't write the code,
Speaker:but we provide any assistance that's needed
Speaker:in doing that for anybody in the company
Speaker:that's working on a digital product,
Speaker:no matter what it is, we're here for that.
Speaker:And so we create trainings and lots of documentation.
Speaker:We have a Slack channel that we call Accessibility Coach,
Speaker:where somebody from my team is always there to answer
Speaker:any questions anybody has,
Speaker:whether they're having trouble figuring out
Speaker:how to make a design accessible,
Speaker:or they're a developer and they're writing code,
Speaker:and they wanna make sure that they're approaching it
Speaker:the right way.
Speaker:We're there for that.
Speaker:We also run specific programs
Speaker:like helping teams implement accessibly automation
Speaker:in their builds,
Speaker:making sure that we're thinking about it at that step.
Speaker:We'll also sit down with people
Speaker:if they want one on one guidance on something.
Speaker:So, we're kind of all over the place,
Speaker:doing anything that's asked of us
Speaker:when it comes to accessibility and just making sure
Speaker:that everybody has the resources that they need.
Speaker:I did also mention,
Speaker:we do have an Accessibility Champions Network.
Speaker:So, our team is very small.
Speaker:Right now there's only two of us,
Speaker:but we're actually in the process of growing it.
Speaker:Right now, we have a few job postings out there,
Speaker:but because we are so small,
Speaker:we do rely on our Accessibility Champions.
Speaker:So people throughout the company
Speaker:in all sorts of different roles,
Speaker:and all sorts of different
Speaker:working on different products that are passionate
Speaker:about accessibility to be there when we can't
Speaker:to help answer questions
Speaker:and really share that passion and really grow that passion
Speaker:across the company,
Speaker:because we can't have our hands in everything.
Speaker:So that's really helpful for us.
Speaker:- Yeah, like the Champions Network is interesting.
Speaker:I know in most large-ish organizations,
Speaker:evangelists that are in departments or divisions
Speaker:tend to be the people that help spread that,
Speaker:the passion and the information,
Speaker:but it sounds like what you've done is standardize
Speaker:that a little bit or add more structure to it.
Speaker:Is that right?
Speaker:- Yeah, so, our Champions Network
Speaker:has been through a few different phases.
Speaker:We've definitely had a lot of learnings and perfected it
Speaker:and continue to grow it.
Speaker:We're actually just started a new phase where we now have
Speaker:a little bit more structure to it,
Speaker:where we have different champion levels.
Speaker:And depending on your roles,
Speaker:there's different things that you can do
Speaker:to increase the level that you're at
Speaker:so that you can get more publicity
Speaker:and more recognition across the company
Speaker:and the work that you've put in.
Speaker:So these things might be things that help your team
Speaker:or even help other teams.
Speaker:So we really have a reason for these Champions
Speaker:to help in any way that they can.
Speaker:And especially with teams that maybe don't have a Champion,
Speaker:getting Champions from other teams to help them as well.
Speaker:So it's a great learning experience for them too.
Speaker:- Now, when Expedia has a new hire,
Speaker:is there some onboarding that connects them
Speaker:to what your group does
Speaker:or is it happen through the Champions
Speaker:or some other way?
Speaker:- Yeah, so we have a lot of internal trainings.
Speaker:We have trainings tailored to each different role,
Speaker:whether that be PMs or designers or developers.
Speaker:We have a onboarding process that they go through
Speaker:with various trainings about what accessibility is
Speaker:and then how to actually implement accessibility
Speaker:in your job.
Speaker:And so those, we find really, really important
Speaker:for our employees to understand accessibility
Speaker:from the get go.
Speaker:- You mentioned people having different roles,
Speaker:but I think that was related to the Champions,
Speaker:but how does it work with accessibility
Speaker:for different roles within the process
Speaker:of your software system?
Speaker:Are there activities for research, design, development?
Speaker:Are they kind of set up in different ways
Speaker:or how do you work with that?
Speaker:- Yeah, so I think we're still building some of that out,
Speaker:but that's definitely the goal
Speaker:is to get accessibility in every single touchpoint.
Speaker:We do do research studies with users.
Speaker:So making sure that that is getting thought of,
Speaker:and that we are bringing in users with disabilities
Speaker:when we do do these studies.
Speaker:We're making sure that when product
Speaker:is creating user stories
Speaker:that we're including users with disabilities
Speaker:in part of these user stories.
Speaker:And then we are making sure that designs
Speaker:that are being handed off to our development team
Speaker:include the requirements that are needed for accessibility.
Speaker:So not only what is this experience like for a sighted user,
Speaker:but also what is this experience like for say,
Speaker:a screen reader user, and how are they going to navigate it?
Speaker:And what's it gonna sound like?
Speaker:And then for our developers, making sure that they have,
Speaker:they're doing testing on all of their code
Speaker:and making sure that they're thinking about accessibility
Speaker:and making sure that we have automated testing
Speaker:in our builds.
Speaker:And then once it goes live,
Speaker:we're still checking all of that, doing assessments,
Speaker:making sure that nothing made it through the cracks
Speaker:and made it to our live site.
Speaker:So, really just making sure that we have those touchpoints
Speaker:at every single spot,
Speaker:so we can really avoid bugs whenever possible.
Speaker:- Well, it's good to hear that you have that applied
Speaker:to the research part of the process.
Speaker:I think that might be one of the areas in user experience
Speaker:that might get the least amount of attention
Speaker:for accessibility, even though early on in the process,
Speaker:that's where you can really do a lot of innovation.
Speaker:Do you have any like, stories or anecdotes or anything
Speaker:of things that have come out of the research
Speaker:that you felt have made an impact on the direction
Speaker:that you went with design and development?
Speaker:- Yeah, I don't know about any like specific stories,
Speaker:but I definitely have seen the power of doing research
Speaker:with users with disabilities
Speaker:and bringing in the people that are actually working
Speaker:on these products and so that they can actually see a user
Speaker:actually using their product,
Speaker:and I've found how impactful it is
Speaker:when they see somebody struggling
Speaker:and really get that person and seeing that person and seeing
Speaker:the struggle they're going through.
Speaker:And really it really hits home more than it does
Speaker:when we just tell them
Speaker:that this is something that's important.
Speaker:But actually seeing that experience is huge.
Speaker:And frequently when we do that,
Speaker:we find that people aren't using it the way that we expect
Speaker:or the way that the developer was thinking
Speaker:that it was gonna be used.
Speaker:And so it just really drives that home
Speaker:that we need to be thinking about these users
Speaker:and that the important thing is what they think makes sense,
Speaker:and not necessarily what we as developers or designers
Speaker:think makes the most sense.
Speaker:- And then do the findings from research.
Speaker:What's the next stop for that?
Speaker:Does that get presented to designers?
Speaker:- I think it depends on the stage
Speaker:that we are in the development life cycle, but yeah,
Speaker:that will generally go back to whoever
Speaker:is working on the product and we figure out how to iterate
Speaker:on it and continue to make things better.
Speaker:That's one of the things that I love
Speaker:about this field too, is that it's never boring.
Speaker:There's always some way to make things better.
Speaker:And we're always looking for that.
Speaker:How do we make this specific experience better
Speaker:for this user or this user?
Speaker:And so there's always ways to iterate
Speaker:and make things better.
Speaker:It's never gonna be perfect. So.
Speaker:- But you also mentioned training and documentation,
Speaker:and I think both of those as entities don't often end up
Speaker:as standardized parts of accessibility in organizations.
Speaker:So I think that's a progressive step that you've taken.
Speaker:What is the training like?
Speaker:- So, we have trainings for each role.
Speaker:So we have kind of an introductory training
Speaker:that everybody is required to take
Speaker:that introduces you to accessibility and to the users
Speaker:that are affected as well as to WCAG
Speaker:and the guidelines that we follow.
Speaker:And then from there, there's just trainings.
Speaker:We have screen reader training as well
Speaker:that we try to get every buddy to take,
Speaker:just to make sure that you understand
Speaker:how a screen reader works,
Speaker:even if you're not necessarily in a role
Speaker:where you have to use it,
Speaker:but just understanding that that does exist
Speaker:and that there's gonna be users that are using this,
Speaker:and that there are different ways to navigate the web
Speaker:than maybe what you're used to.
Speaker:And then we'll have trainings.
Speaker:We have trainings aimed at developers
Speaker:that talk about how to actually write your code
Speaker:and then trainings aimed at designers
Speaker:that talk about things like color and other things
Speaker:that are gonna factor into their designs
Speaker:in thinking about how they're actually incorporating that
Speaker:in the actual design that they hand off to development.
Speaker:- And then the other piece
Speaker:that you mentioned was documentation.
Speaker:What does that consist of
Speaker:and how is that used by everyone?
Speaker:- So we have a large wide range of documentation
Speaker:that I've been working on over the last seven years.
Speaker:We have different examples of different components.
Speaker:So, say if you have a developer designer
Speaker:who's working on a menu or a tool tip or a carousel,
Speaker:we have pages specifically dedicated to those
Speaker:that talk about what that experience will look like
Speaker:for a keyboard or a screen reader user,
Speaker:as well as common pitfalls that we see
Speaker:when it comes to those components
Speaker:and making sure that you avoid those.
Speaker:We also have Expedia accessibility guidelines,
Speaker:which is another document that I've worked on a lot
Speaker:over the last couple years,
Speaker:where over the course of our program,
Speaker:we've had a few different obstacles
Speaker:that we were trying to solve.
Speaker:One being that as the members of our team provide guidance
Speaker:because accessibility can be a bit subjective,
Speaker:we found that we weren't necessarily consistent all the time
Speaker:in the recommendations that we were making.
Speaker:And so we wanted to figure out a way
Speaker:to make that more consistent and really document
Speaker:the directions that we wanted to take.
Speaker:And then we were also finding
Speaker:that especially with employees who are new to accessibility,
Speaker:that if you ask them to look at WCAG
Speaker:and try to figure out what was required of them,
Speaker:because it's such a comprehensive document,
Speaker:it can be a little overwhelming for people
Speaker:in not knowing where to look, where to start.
Speaker:So we really just wanted to make it
Speaker:a little bit more concrete and in verbiage
Speaker:that made sense for us as a company.
Speaker:So, we set out to create
Speaker:the Expedia Accessibility Guidelines,
Speaker:which are essentially just an adaption of WCAG.
Speaker:It's all the same content,
Speaker:but just in a little bit more specific,
Speaker:kind of black and white requirements
Speaker:for the direction that we wanted to take as a company
Speaker:so that we could make sure that we were as consistent
Speaker:as possible in the experience that we had across each page,
Speaker:each component, each brand,
Speaker:and just making sure that everything can stay
Speaker:as consistent as possible,
Speaker:and just have one stop shop that everybody can go to
Speaker:to figure out what they need for the component
Speaker:they're working on.
Speaker:- If designers or developers come up with new solutions
Speaker:for how to do things, does that move back toward your group
Speaker:to bring it into the documentation?
Speaker:- Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker:We are always updating our documentation with new findings,
Speaker:new decisions that we've made.
Speaker:If a question comes in that we feel like isn't answered yet
Speaker:in our documentation, and we have an answer for it,
Speaker:we'll go back in and add that to the documentation.
Speaker:Whenever, yeah, if we have new experiences,
Speaker:new ways of implementing something and we change our mind,
Speaker:which happens sometimes.
Speaker:I mean, we find new information
Speaker:that we didn't have before we decide
Speaker:that maybe a different experience is better
Speaker:than the one we have,
Speaker:we'll go back and change our recommendations.
Speaker:- And does your group field questions or concerns
Speaker:that come in through customer support?
Speaker:- We do, yes.
Speaker:We have an email alias that we use for that
Speaker:as well as just our normal feedback locations.
Speaker:We get that all funneled in
Speaker:when it's accessibility related.
Speaker:And we definitely look at that and use that
Speaker:to definitely go back to our teams and figure out
Speaker:what needs to happen to fix any issues that we're seeing.
Speaker:But most of the time,
Speaker:it's actually usually pretty positive.
Speaker:We hear a lot that we have one of the best travel platforms
Speaker:and I couldn't be more proud of that.
Speaker:That we can allow people to do things
Speaker:that they couldn't otherwise.
Speaker:So, it's pretty exciting.
Speaker:- And how do you organize that with just two people?
Speaker:- It's rough.
Speaker:- I mean, I realize there's a huge group there,
Speaker:but I would've, yeah.
Speaker:I would've felt like you would've needed more
Speaker:within the things you've been talking about here.
Speaker:It's a lot of work.
Speaker:- Yeah. Yeah. Our team has gone through a lot of changes.
Speaker:We've definitely had more people at times.
Speaker:This just happens to be a moment when right now
Speaker:we only have two, but we are, as I said,
Speaker:looking to expand our team a lot more in the coming months.
Speaker:So, we're pretty excited for those opportunities.
Speaker:- Well, let's talk a little bit about things going on now.
Speaker:Are there any particular activities or initiatives
Speaker:that you're particularly interested or busy with these days?
Speaker:- Still a little bit of everything.
Speaker:Just kind of filling in all the gaps.
Speaker:We're working on a lot more documentation.
Speaker:We found that we wanted to expand more
Speaker:outside of the typical roles that we think about
Speaker:for digital accessibility.
Speaker:So, expanding more to documentation
Speaker:and things that will be helpful for just say a PM
Speaker:or somebody that's just working from day to day.
Speaker:So, working on documentation for things like
Speaker:making emails accessible and presentations accessible.
Speaker:So things that are more internal for us as a company.
Speaker:We've been definitely working on that a lot,
Speaker:making sure that we are a great place
Speaker:to work for people with disabilities.
Speaker:We were actually just recognized
Speaker:as one of the best places to work
Speaker:for disability inclusion by Disability In.
Speaker:So we're really excited about that,
Speaker:and getting focused on that a little bit more.
Speaker:We're also assisting a few other groups
Speaker:in making sure that just the travel experience
Speaker:as a whole is accessible.
Speaker:So not even just our digital experience,
Speaker:but actually the travel experience
Speaker:and the physical experience is accessible.
Speaker:So that's really exciting for us as a team as well.
Speaker:Yeah, I think just continuing to build out
Speaker:as much as we can and touch as many people
Speaker:within the company as we can.
Speaker:As we start growing our team,
Speaker:we're hoping to touch more people.
Speaker:So the more we can do that, the better.
Speaker:- Great, well, it's a very interesting story,
Speaker:and it is great to see how well you've been able
Speaker:to put a comprehensive program together in your company.
Speaker:And thanks for taking the time to chat with me today.
