Episode 7
Bringing the Disability Community Together With Organizations to Work on Solutions
Lainey Feingold, Author, Negotiator, Lawyer, Speaker at Law Office of Lainey Feingold
Lainey describes her career as a legal advocate for people with disabilities. She talks about her process of structured negotiation to foster change without litigation.
Mentioned in this episode:
Info about Accessibility at Blink
Transcript
(dramatic music)
Speaker:- Hello.
Speaker:This is "Digital Accessibility:
Speaker:"The People Behind the Progress."
Speaker:I'm Joe Wilinski, the creator and host of this series,
Speaker:and as an accessibility professional myself,
Speaker:I find it very interesting
Speaker:as to how others have found their way into this profession.
Speaker:So let's meet one of those people right now
Speaker:and hear about their journey.
Speaker:All right. Well, here we go.
Speaker:Getting into another episode where I have the opportunity
Speaker:to meet with an accessibility practitioner, and today,
Speaker:I'm very pleased to be speaking with Lainey Feingold.
Speaker:Hello, Lainey. How are you today?
Speaker:- I'm good. Thank you.
Speaker:- I'm speaking from my home office on Vashon Island,
Speaker:which is near Blink's Seattle headquarters.
Speaker:Where are you talking to us from?
Speaker:- I am in Berkeley, California,
Speaker:in my home office where I have worked for the past 27 years.
Speaker:- Wow. In that same spot?
Speaker:- In this very same spot, yes.
Speaker:- Well, I'm sure it must work out well for you
Speaker:and I'm glad to have you here to join me.
Speaker:And I think a lot of people in the accessibility profession
Speaker:are very familiar with you at least by name,
Speaker:if not by your work,
Speaker:but why don't you start by talking a little bit
Speaker:about what you're involved with?
Speaker:- Okay.
Speaker:Well, first, I'll do a quick visual description
Speaker:because I know that's helpful for inclusion.
Speaker:So I am in my home office, like you said,
Speaker:and I'm a white woman with gray hair turning to white hair.
Speaker:I say that as my most salient visual feature
Speaker:as a segue into the fact
Speaker:that I have been in the digital accessibility space
Speaker:since the mid '90s
Speaker:and I consider myself an elder in the space,
Speaker:which is really a privilege.
Speaker:I'm a disability rights lawyer.
Speaker:I've been working only on digital accessibility
Speaker:in the legal space, as I said, since the mid '90s.
Speaker:I think one of my legal claims to fame
Speaker:is that I believe in working on accessibility
Speaker:through collaboration
Speaker:and I'm very happy to say that in all those years,
Speaker:I've had to only file but one lawsuit
Speaker:because I've practiced a collaborative process
Speaker:called structured negotiation,
Speaker:and I've written a book about it.
Speaker:We could talk a little more about it later
Speaker:if you're interested.
Speaker:And it's really about bringing the disability community
Speaker:together with organizations
Speaker:to work on solutions to accessibility barriers.
Speaker:That's been mostly what I have done.
Speaker:In the last couple years,
Speaker:I've been lucky to have an opportunity
Speaker:to work with Disability:IN,
Speaker:which is a corporate business-to-business digital,
Speaker:sorry, disability inclusion organization.
Speaker:And I help with the digital accessibility work there.
Speaker:And I love all my partners from structured negotiation.
Speaker:We've done the work with big companies,
Speaker:started with Bank of America, Wells Fargo,
Speaker:we've worked with Walmart, all who have been great partners,
Speaker:and many of those same companies are in Disability:IN
Speaker:and my role there is to do
Speaker:what I consider my role as an elder,
Speaker:which is I have a certain amount of know-how
Speaker:since I've been in the space for so long.
Speaker:I also have a lot of know-who
Speaker:and I see myself as a connector
Speaker:and the digital accessibility community globally
Speaker:is just so wonderful and generous in sharing.
Speaker:And so, yeah, so between the structured negotiation work
Speaker:and the Disability:IN work and the work with my book,
Speaker:and the last thing I'd say is I do a lot of public speaking
Speaker:and public writing about the space.
Speaker:I was saying before I got on the air here
Speaker:that somehow I'm in this role of like a bridge.
Speaker:I see myself as a bridge
Speaker:between what's happening in the legal space
Speaker:and what the digital accessibility community
Speaker:really needs to know
Speaker:about what's happening in the legal space.
Speaker:So I do a lot of writing and speaking about that.
Speaker:I do trainings on structured negotiation
Speaker:with a focus on how can we avoid being a shark
Speaker:and learn to be a dolphin
Speaker:when we're trying to get accessibility enhancements?
Speaker:So that's that's me and what I do.
Speaker:- Well, you've definitely made a lot of contributions
Speaker:in sharing your ideas through your community engagement,
Speaker:all the different talks you've done over the years
Speaker:certainly is very, very helpful.
Speaker:And I want to talk more about your current work
Speaker:and we can talk about your book.
Speaker:We also like to find out how people found their way
Speaker:to working specifically with accessibility.
Speaker:So maybe you could take us back in time a little bit.
Speaker:I guess I'm an elder as well,
Speaker:kind of at the end of my career,
Speaker:but we've all have kind of milestones
Speaker:that got us to where we are today.
Speaker:So where did it start with you
Speaker:where you first either became aware of this area
Speaker:or you just found your way into it?
Speaker:- Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker:And I too am at the end of the career.
Speaker:I turned 65 last year
Speaker:and I've written a book about my work.
Speaker:And you could start anywhere.
Speaker:My high school yearbook, people wrote,
Speaker:"You'll be a great lawyer. See you in court."
Speaker:So I always wanted to go into the legal space,
Speaker:but I start this journey with the fact
Speaker:that I was fired from a job and I like to start there
Speaker:because especially for young people,
Speaker:those sorts of things that happen are and seem
Speaker:and actually are very overwhelming when they happen.
Speaker:And when I got fired from this job,
Speaker:I was at a traditional civil rights firm
Speaker:and it was very unexpected to me.
Speaker:It was out of the blue. I was like, oh my God.
Speaker:I had two little kids.
Speaker:My husband and I had just bought a house.
Speaker:Like, oh my God, now what?
Speaker:And I very luckily ended up taking a four-month position
Speaker:at Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund.
Speaker:And I'm in Berkeley,
Speaker:birthplace of the independent living movement,
Speaker:and I'm embarrassed to say
Speaker:I didn't know anything about disability rights.
Speaker:Certainly didn't know anything about digital accessibility.
Speaker:It was 1992.
Speaker:But I ended up at DREDF
Speaker:and while I was there for those four months,
Speaker:that turned into, first of all, they turned into four years,
Speaker:I was filling in for someone
Speaker:and that person didn't come back
Speaker:and so I stayed for four years, and during that time,
Speaker:blind people approached DREDF
Speaker:because they couldn't use ATMs.
Speaker:And they approached DREDF and also private law firm
Speaker:with my colleague, Linda Dardarian, who now runs that firm.
Speaker:At the time, we were both young.
Speaker:And that's kind of how it started.
Speaker:The blind people who came to us were so knowledgeable
Speaker:about not just how to make ATMs accessible
Speaker:and what they needed, which was talking ATMs,
Speaker:which we now have,
Speaker:but they were all people willing to work in collaboration.
Speaker:It's just kind of random. We could have filed the lawsuit.
Speaker:And we said, well,
Speaker:there weren't any talking ATMs anywhere in the world.
Speaker:The Americans with Disabilities Act
Speaker:was three or four years old when we started
Speaker:and we didn't wanna screw it up for a whole generation
Speaker:trying to get this technology thing going.
Speaker:And so it was this amazing group
Speaker:of blind advocates and activists
Speaker:that came together with the lawyers from DREDF
Speaker:and the private law firm.
Speaker:And we approached the banks
Speaker:and they said they would talk to us
Speaker:and we worked on talking ATMs and at the end of that,
Speaker:in around 1998, one of the blind clients came to us
Speaker:and said, okay, good job, talking ATMs,
Speaker:but there's this thing called online banking.
Speaker:We better make sure that's accessible.
Speaker:That conversation is really the seed of all my work
Speaker:in digital accessibility.
Speaker:- Well, I wanted to dig a little bit more into
Speaker:where they are that point in time
Speaker:because people I've talked to on this series,
Speaker:a lot of people first became familiar with it
Speaker:as software developers
Speaker:or designers within organizations for web services.
Speaker:Others first became exposed through academia
Speaker:with that being the support area.
Speaker:And I don't think I've talked with anybody
Speaker:that specifically got in at that advocacy level early on.
Speaker:And so maybe talk a little bit more
Speaker:about what the atmosphere was at that time
Speaker:because were you in the Bay Area at that time
Speaker:and did you have connections with people
Speaker:in other parts of the country?
Speaker:- Yes.
Speaker:The DREDF was headquartered,
Speaker:is still headquartered in Berkeley, California,
Speaker:the Disability Rights Education Defense Fund,
Speaker:and that's where I've lived all this time.
Speaker:So the initial group of blind people we work with
Speaker:were from mostly California
Speaker:and we also worked with the California Council of the Blind.
Speaker:And at the time, the banks were just becoming national.
Speaker:We had Wells Fargo, Bank of America, and Citibank
Speaker:who we approached with the letter and said,
Speaker:would you like to work with us on ATMs
Speaker:that work for blind people?
Speaker:And so we were focused on that.
Speaker:It took a good four years to get those first agreements
Speaker:and during those four years,
Speaker:we really saw the power of collaboration
Speaker:and what became structured negotiation.
Speaker:It wasn't structured negotiation then
Speaker:because we didn't have a name
Speaker:because we didn't know we had a thing.
Speaker:We were just trying to work out a problem.
Speaker:But the relationship between the banking people
Speaker:and the blind community that was involved,
Speaker:we went to ATM labs all over the state
Speaker:and blind people gave their input and gave their experience.
Speaker:And the light bulbs would just go off
Speaker:in these bankers' heads,
Speaker:like, oh, we never thought about that.
Speaker:And sad to say, not with ATMs,
Speaker:but with many other kinds of technologies,
Speaker:that's still true today.
Speaker:When people are approached with a open hand
Speaker:instead of the closed fist of litigation,
Speaker:I find that there's a lot of openness to,
Speaker:oh, we didn't really realize it.
Speaker:We didn't understand
Speaker:how blind people could do this or do this.
Speaker:So we started in California
Speaker:and then we had the first agreement in 1999.
Speaker:Wells Fargo made the first commitment to talking ATMs.
Speaker:Citibank followed soon after
Speaker:with the first, I think, talking ATMs in New York.
Speaker:Bank of America became the first
Speaker:with the biggest nationwide commitment.
Speaker:And for those first couple years,
Speaker:we were always talking about the first,
Speaker:the first talking ATMs in Spanish,
Speaker:the first talking ATMs in this state or that state.
Speaker:And this was before really websites and internet
Speaker:and all the connections we have now,
Speaker:but the blind community was very active and very together
Speaker:and we started getting calls from different states.
Speaker:"Oh, we want talking ATMs here. Can you help us?"
Speaker:A lot of the banks we worked with at the time
Speaker:have subsequently been purchased by B of A or Wells Fargo,
Speaker:but at that time, there were a lot more smaller banks
Speaker:and we worked with blind advocates all over the country
Speaker:on this issue.
Speaker:And right from the beginning, after California,
Speaker:we always included the banking website on top of the ATMs.
Speaker:One of the earliest ones, we worked in Chicago in Illinois
Speaker:with an advocate named Kelly Pierce
Speaker:and he used to have an email list that like every person,
Speaker:I think every blind person in the country was on it
Speaker:and we didn't have any regulations at the time
Speaker:and Kelly's advocacy in bringing the community together
Speaker:to help us get regulations, so it just kind of snowballed.
Speaker:And then people, it's my view that most people
Speaker:would rather not file a lawsuit
Speaker:to get something accomplished,
Speaker:whether you're disabled or not.
Speaker:And I think we hit a chord in the blind community,
Speaker:both with the achievements
Speaker:in terms of the actual technology advancements
Speaker:and also with the process.
Speaker:And so we worked on accessible pedestrian signals.
Speaker:We worked on major league baseball websites.
Speaker:We worked on talking prescription labels
Speaker:all in this collaborative way.
Speaker:And yeah, there's still a lot to do.
Speaker:- Well, that's another, I think, thing I wanna key in on,
Speaker:on the background you're talking about.
Speaker:So you mentioned where ATMs
Speaker:was one of that first important areas that required support.
Speaker:I guess that's something you could consider,
Speaker:a combination of digital and physical accessibility issues.
Speaker:But I mean, I think you mentioned late '90s
Speaker:when you first started talking with Wells Fargo,
Speaker:but essentially, digital consumption of services
Speaker:obviously has exploded since then
Speaker:where it's a critical part of everyone's lives.
Speaker:And so I imagine the scale and magnitude
Speaker:of the things that you're having to work with and consider
Speaker:has increased quite a lot over the past few years.
Speaker:- Yes, and I'm happy to say
Speaker:there's more lawyers in the space doing the work.
Speaker:When I started out,
Speaker:we had the very first web accessibility agreement
Speaker:in the country
Speaker:between California Council of the Blind and Bank of America.
Speaker:And shortly thereafter, the National Federation of the Blind
Speaker:started doing agreements.
Speaker:And so early on that I was working with the ACB
Speaker:and its affiliates and the Brown Goldstein & Levy firm,
Speaker:which is still very involved in this work
Speaker:and does great work.
Speaker:They were working with NFB. They still do.
Speaker:So, yeah, there's a ton more things,
Speaker:but there's also, there's more companies and leadership,
Speaker:global organizations who get it,
Speaker:who we can point to companies like Microsoft and Google
Speaker:and Yahoo and companies are now seeing the value
Speaker:of the disability, not just the disability market,
Speaker:but the digital inclusion values.
Speaker:And I think I've never seen in all my years
Speaker:anything like what we're seeing now
Speaker:in terms of accessibility jobs
Speaker:and big companies and global marketing efforts.
Speaker:Procter & Gamble has a wonderful head of accessibility
Speaker:in London named Sumaira Latif
Speaker:and she's doing amazing work with their advertising,
Speaker:including audio description.
Speaker:And Google did a national ad.
Speaker:I forgot if it was Super Bowl.
Speaker:I think Microsoft's accessible gaming console,
Speaker:they did as a Super Bowl ad.
Speaker:Google did, I think it was the Oscars.
Speaker:Google did a great ad featuring their captioning
Speaker:on the Oscars.
Speaker:Unheard of back when I started.
Speaker:And I think that's really helping.
Speaker:I mean, of course, it's a long way to go
Speaker:and I don't wanna be seen as someone
Speaker:who thinks everything's rosy, 'cause everything isn't,
Speaker:but certainly significant progress has come about
Speaker:since we first started.
Speaker:- Well, you mentioned your work with structured negotiation.
Speaker:Maybe could you talk a little bit about that,
Speaker:how that plays out as a process?
Speaker:- Yeah, so like I said, when we started with the banks,
Speaker:we didn't file a lawsuit for various reasons.
Speaker:And over the years, we've kind of refined what it means
Speaker:to work in collaboration and how does it happen?
Speaker:And I wrote my book in 2016.
Speaker:It's called
"Structured Negotiation:A Winning Alternative to Lawsuits."
"Structured Negotiation:I just put out the second edition in October of last year
"Structured Negotiation:and writing a book kind of forced me to look at,
"Structured Negotiation:well, what is it that we do
"Structured Negotiation:that allowed companies like Anthem and Walmart
"Structured Negotiation:and cities like the city of San Francisco
"Structured Negotiation:to work with us without a lawsuit?
"Structured Negotiation:And really, so much of it is the mindset.
"Structured Negotiation:I call it the structured negotiation mindset.
"Structured Negotiation:I call it dolphin skills to emphasize
"Structured Negotiation:you don't have to be a shark,
"Structured Negotiation:basic communications, understanding that things take time
"Structured Negotiation:in a large organization.
"Structured Negotiation:There's a lot of lawyers in this space now
"Structured Negotiation:that use the ADA in ways I consider unethical
"Structured Negotiation:and one of the hallmarks of that kind of work
"Structured Negotiation:is a demand letter to a gigantic company,
"Structured Negotiation:you know, give us this money,
"Structured Negotiation:fix this thing in the next two weeks,
"Structured Negotiation:or else we're gonna sue you.
"Structured Negotiation:Well, those of us in accessibility,
"Structured Negotiation:including you and everyone you've interviewed,
"Structured Negotiation:know that nothing happens in two weeks.
"Structured Negotiation:I'm not saying it shouldn't, but it can't.
"Structured Negotiation:And what we're going for is real baked-in accessibility
"Structured Negotiation:and that depends on companies
"Structured Negotiation:knowing people with disabilities.
"Structured Negotiation:And this is a process that is open in the legal system
"Structured Negotiation:for companies to get to know their disabled customers.
"Structured Negotiation:We've worked, did an agreement with Charles Schwab.
"Structured Negotiation:They were a great negotiating partner
"Structured Negotiation:on behalf of a blind woman who was an options trader.
"Structured Negotiation:Well, their developers and trainers,
"Structured Negotiation:they never thought, oh, their options trading site
"Structured Negotiation:needed to work for a blind person,
"Structured Negotiation:but because we weren't fighting
"Structured Negotiation:and we could get everyone in a room
"Structured Negotiation:and they could meet this blind person,
"Structured Negotiation:it was like, oh, yeah, people wanna do the right thing.
"Structured Negotiation:I mean, I kind of believe that, and this is a process
"Structured Negotiation:that gives people the opportunity for it.
"Structured Negotiation:So in the book, I go through all the elements,
"Structured Negotiation:like how do you write a letter that says is a legal problem,
"Structured Negotiation:but also invites cooperation?
"Structured Negotiation:How do you bring in expertise
"Structured Negotiation:in a way that really helps all the parties?
"Structured Negotiation:How do you have a meeting?
"Structured Negotiation:How do you write language
"Structured Negotiation:so people don't get defensive and narrow?
"Structured Negotiation:Because we want accessibility to be innovative and creative.
"Structured Negotiation:And so it's a process that has worked.
"Structured Negotiation:I'm very careful to say it's not a process for every case
"Structured Negotiation:and each lawyer and client has to decide,
"Structured Negotiation:but it's a process that is definitely a tool in the toolkit
"Structured Negotiation:for our digital accessibility in the United States.
"Structured Negotiation:- Well, in my observations,
"Structured Negotiation:certainly not from a legal framework,
"Structured Negotiation:but when I read into articles
"Structured Negotiation:about where there have been lawsuits involved,
"Structured Negotiation:it generally to me seems like places where there's just
"Structured Negotiation:an egregious lack of attention to the area,
"Structured Negotiation:whereas organizations that understand that it's iterative
"Structured Negotiation:and are transparent about working to move forward,
"Structured Negotiation:I think they rarely end up in a legal problem
"Structured Negotiation:when you can see that the efforts are being made
"Structured Negotiation:to make their products and services more accessible.
"Structured Negotiation:- You know, I would've said that was true four years ago.
"Structured Negotiation:I would've said absolutely, that was true.
"Structured Negotiation:I think there is a different type of lawyer in the space now
"Structured Negotiation:and people can get a lawsuit even if they are trying,
"Structured Negotiation:not to say they don't have problems,
"Structured Negotiation:but not every lawyer is willing to find out.
"Structured Negotiation:Are there people working on it? Are there problems?
"Structured Negotiation:So one of my sort of, I don't know, goal, message, passion
"Structured Negotiation:is if you get one of those lawsuits,
"Structured Negotiation:let's not let bad actors define good behavior.
"Structured Negotiation:You know what I mean?
"Structured Negotiation:So, yeah, you might get a lawsuit.
"Structured Negotiation:I've talked to many small organizations have gotten lawsuits
"Structured Negotiation:as they tell me, we're trying, we did this,
"Structured Negotiation:we had these few problems.
"Structured Negotiation:Why did we get a lawsuit?
"Structured Negotiation:And I don't do that kind of work, helping those companies.
"Structured Negotiation:But I always say like, okay,
"Structured Negotiation:in some ways, it's a cost of doing business.
"Structured Negotiation:In some ways, you can use it as an opportunity to do better.
"Structured Negotiation:Some people get those types of lawsuits
"Structured Negotiation:and they haven't done nothing.
"Structured Negotiation:They haven't done anything.
"Structured Negotiation:One of the concerns I have about those types of lawsuits
"Structured Negotiation:is I know what it's like to stick with a company
"Structured Negotiation:till they get it right.
"Structured Negotiation:And if you're sending a hundred demand letters a week
"Structured Negotiation:and saying fix this, it doesn't get fixed.
"Structured Negotiation:So there's different views about different strategies,
"Structured Negotiation:but it's really important to remember
"Structured Negotiation:that there are ethical lawyers doing ethical work,
"Structured Negotiation:filing ethical lawsuits.
"Structured Negotiation:And if you happen to get hit by something
"Structured Negotiation:that you don't think is fair,
"Structured Negotiation:don't let it influence your commitment
"Structured Negotiation:to doing the right thing.
"Structured Negotiation:- Well, yeah.
"Structured Negotiation:Well, it's good to learn about that development
"Structured Negotiation:in this area.
"Structured Negotiation:And so if an organization ends up in that situation,
"Structured Negotiation:it sounds like in some way they'd need to have
"Structured Negotiation:some type of representation to be able to protect themselves
"Structured Negotiation:as they determine what the right course of action is.
"Structured Negotiation:- Yes.
"Structured Negotiation:If you get a lawsuit in the United States,
"Structured Negotiation:it's very wise to hire a lawyer.
"Structured Negotiation:I mean, you don't have to. You can try to do it yourself.
"Structured Negotiation:But another sort of concern I have
"Structured Negotiation:that wasn't in the space when I started
"Structured Negotiation:is the use of web accessibility overlays
"Structured Negotiation:and these are one line of code pieces of software
"Structured Negotiation:where the companies often claim, oh,
"Structured Negotiation:just install this one line of code for monthly license fee
"Structured Negotiation:and we'll give you ADA protection.
"Structured Negotiation:So I've written a lot about that.
"Structured Negotiation:If any of your listeners are new to this issue,
"Structured Negotiation:going to the overlayfactsheet.com
"Structured Negotiation:is where you can get tons of resources on this.
"Structured Negotiation:And I tie it in.
"Structured Negotiation:It's sort of part of the ecosystem right now.
"Structured Negotiation:They're very heavily venture funded.
"Structured Negotiation:So we have to keep the eye on the prize
"Structured Negotiation:of true baked-in accessibility
"Structured Negotiation:with disabled people front and center
"Structured Negotiation:and not let these developments distract us from the mission.
"Structured Negotiation:- Well, I know I'm always suspicious
"Structured Negotiation:when I hear claims of providing certification
"Structured Negotiation:because we don't really have an authority body
"Structured Negotiation:in the United States or in other parts of the world
"Structured Negotiation:that say that something,
"Structured Negotiation:there's not a legal framework for that.
"Structured Negotiation:We have VPAT and the ability to transparently talk about
"Structured Negotiation:what we've done to support that.
"Structured Negotiation:But I know a lot of organizations,
"Structured Negotiation:when they're looking for accessibility support,
"Structured Negotiation:a lot of times they're looking for
"Structured Negotiation:some official, quote, unquote official certification
"Structured Negotiation:and indemnification, and that's not really out there,
"Structured Negotiation:as far as I understand.
"Structured Negotiation:- Yeah, there isn't one.
"Structured Negotiation:And another thing people have to understand,
"Structured Negotiation:and like the people who have been part of your series
"Structured Negotiation:obviously do, accessibility is not one and done.
"Structured Negotiation:And this is why I'm so public about the overlays
"Structured Negotiation:or the unethical lawyers, because accessibility,
"Structured Negotiation:every time you issue a release
"Structured Negotiation:can be improved or can be broken.
"Structured Negotiation:And so without a real baked-in accessibility program
"Structured Negotiation:that covers all aspects of the organization,
"Structured Negotiation:what you purchase, procurement and communications,
"Structured Negotiation:and every single thing,
"Structured Negotiation:if you don't have that, people are gonna be excluded.
"Structured Negotiation:And that's why I do the public speaking
"Structured Negotiation:is because accessibility is a civil right
"Structured Negotiation:of people with disabilities.
"Structured Negotiation:And no matter what your role is,
"Structured Negotiation:whether you're a developer or a designer or communicator
"Structured Negotiation:or content writer,
"Structured Negotiation:that means kind of a civil rights enforcer.
"Structured Negotiation:And if I think thinking about it that way,
"Structured Negotiation:we have to do the hard individual work,
"Structured Negotiation:but we're also part of a bigger picture of enforcing rights.
"Structured Negotiation:And to me, it's all about inclusion or exclusion
"Structured Negotiation:and every decision point has that option.
"Structured Negotiation:You're gonna include, we're gonna exclude.
"Structured Negotiation:So that's kind of why I think I became this bridge
"Structured Negotiation:to communicating about this because too often,
"Structured Negotiation:the legal space feels complicated and bogged down
"Structured Negotiation:or you hear about,
"Structured Negotiation:oh, $10 million lawsuit against this company.
"Structured Negotiation:The next thing you know,
"Structured Negotiation:it's settled for you don't know what.
"Structured Negotiation:So I think looking at the law as a civil right
"Structured Negotiation:can help all of us advance our common goals here.
"Structured Negotiation:- And looking into the future,
"Structured Negotiation:there's always opportunities that are on the horizon.
"Structured Negotiation:There's also challenges that we have to be concerned about.
"Structured Negotiation:You mentioned some of the challenges
"Structured Negotiation:about predatory lawsuits
"Structured Negotiation:and what seem like simple software solutions.
"Structured Negotiation:Are there any other challenges that you see moving forward
"Structured Negotiation:or on the other side, things where you see opportunities
"Structured Negotiation:for things to go in a positive direction?
"Structured Negotiation:- Well, you hit my two biggest worries,
"Structured Negotiation:which are the overlay companies
"Structured Negotiation:and the serial lawsuit filers.
"Structured Negotiation:I do think COVID, for all its terribleness,
"Structured Negotiation:does give us an opportunity
"Structured Negotiation:to keep the focus on the need for accessibility,
"Structured Negotiation:because things are never gonna go back, I don't think,
"Structured Negotiation:to 100% in-person and people have learned the importance
"Structured Negotiation:of accessible digital spaces, especially in healthcare.
"Structured Negotiation:The US Department of Justice now is doing a lot of good work
"Structured Negotiation:and making sure that vaccine portals and testing portals
"Structured Negotiation:are accessible.
"Structured Negotiation:So I think there is a heightened awareness
"Structured Negotiation:and I think that will continue.
"Structured Negotiation:And with the large companies and with the advocates
"Structured Negotiation:and the global nature of accessibility is very strong.
"Structured Negotiation:When we first started with the talking ATMs,
"Structured Negotiation:we would talk to people in other countries, well,
"Structured Negotiation:you use NCR, they built a talking ATM here in the US.
"Structured Negotiation:They can have it over there.
"Structured Negotiation:So I think the bringing together the global community
"Structured Negotiation:and the heightened awareness
"Structured Negotiation:around the importance of accessibility
"Structured Negotiation:will hopefully continue to grow this amazing community
"Structured Negotiation:and movement that we have.
"Structured Negotiation:- Well, I look forward to that future as well.
"Structured Negotiation:And Lainey, thanks so much for taking the time
"Structured Negotiation:to chat with me about your experiences and your background
"Structured Negotiation:and how you got to where you are today
"Structured Negotiation:and hopefully I will be able to see you at some point
"Structured Negotiation:in the future at a in-person event,
"Structured Negotiation:but otherwise we'll continue on this way.
"Structured Negotiation:- Great. Well, thanks for having me.
