Episode 8

Accessibility is a Journey

Thomas Wlodkowski, Comcast, Vice President, Accessibility

Currently, leading the accessibility program at Comcast. Tom's team supports both employee-facing or customer-facing accessibility. He shares his experience being blind from birth and finding his way into the media world through radio at WPOP in Boston. That led to work with audio descriptions, policy-making for accessible media and then a position at AOL as director of accessibility.

Mentioned in this episode:

Info about Accessibility at Blink

Transcript
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(tense upbeat music)

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- Hello, this is Digital Accessibility

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of People Behind the Progress.

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I'm Joe Wilinski,

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the creator and host of this series.

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And as an accessibility professional myself,

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I find it very interesting

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is to how others have found their way

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into this profession.

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So let's meet one of those people right now

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and hear about their journey.

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All right.

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Well, here we are with another episode

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of this podcast,

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which takes us into the work lives

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of many accessibility practitioners.

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And today, I am pleased

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to be speaking with Tom Wlodkowski.

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Hi, Tom.

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How are you today?

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- Doing well, Joe.

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How about yourself?

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- I'm good.

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It so nice summer day in Vashon Island

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which is near Blink's Seattle headquarters office.

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Where are you talking to us from?

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- I'm at Comcast's corporate headquarters

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in Philadelphia.

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And it's a nice typical summer, July day here,

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a little bit of humidity,

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but the temperatures in the upper eighties.

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And I'm a big fan of summer,

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so I'm all in

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on this type of weather for sure.

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- All right.

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Well, it's great to have you here.

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I've always enjoyed my visits to Philadelphia.

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Well, in this podcast,

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one of the things

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that we do is find out

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about what things you're involved in

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and how you got to where you are today.

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So maybe, you could start out

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just talking a little bit

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about your current position

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and what that entails.

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- So I have the pleasure

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of leading the accessibility program here at Comcast.

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- And our goal is to really ensure

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that disability inclusion is a part

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of everything we do

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in terms of how we design and develop products,

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whether they be employee facing or customer facing.

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Now of course,

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any one of us in the accessibility space

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will tell each other.

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And anyone who wants to know

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that accessibility is a journey, right.

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There isn't a destination.

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And so, it continues to evolve

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as technology evolves,

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as new businesses come into the fold,

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we're just really now this year,

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leaning in pretty deeply

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on our employee experience side.

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You know, we got started focusing

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on our customer facing products,

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largely our entertainment products.

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And obviously,

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that has expanded over time as well.

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And so, accessibility at Comcast

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is really founded on three fundamental pillars,

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if you will.

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Customer and stakeholder engagement would be one pillar,

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product capabilities would be the second pillar,

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and then the infrastructure necessary

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to support our commitment is that third pillar.

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And various people on my team are on the hook

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for different aspects of each one of those pillars

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that I described.

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Now we don't own products, per se.

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There may be one product,

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our adaptive web remote application

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which we can talk about in a moment that,

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that we do oversee directly.

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But everything else we do

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is like most accessibility groups at large companies

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in support of various product

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and business units across the organization.

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So we're there to define requirements

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and we are there as consultants,

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and do some testing,

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and all of that so.

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But when we think about like customer

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and stakeholder engagement,

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it's really based on the nothing about us,

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without us statement

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that we hear from the civil rights space.

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And we can't build our products in a vacuum.

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We need to deliver products and design products

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with accessibility in mind. And the best way to do that

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is to talk to the end user.

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And so, I have somebody on my team

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who manages our engagement work.

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And they'll do everything from helping us

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provide people for focus groups

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for our research team

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that we have in our experienced design organization

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that helps us,

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they'll put together round tables.

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You know, they help us into this person.

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Joel identifies specific types of partnerships

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that we might wanna establish

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and then oversees the creation of the relationship.

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And so, for example, today,

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we have a very nice partnership

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with the Team Gleason foundation.

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Team Gleason was founded by Steve Gleason,

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the retired NFL, New Orleans Saints player,

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who after he retired,

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was diagnosed with ALS.

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And the foundation's mission is,

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until there's a cure for ALS,

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technology is the cure.

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And as we talked about,

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we have this web remote experience

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that allows someone with ALS

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or other disabilities

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to bring whatever assistive technology they have

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that works best for them,

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as long as they can use it

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to browse the web

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or navigate the digital world,

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bring that technology to our doorstep

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and essentially have a web experience

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that allows them to independently control

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their TV viewing experience.

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And so, Joel on my team would create

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that type of a partnership

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because we have this product that we develop

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for a number of reasons,

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and we wanna make it better,

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but also we want to get the word out

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and drive traffic.

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So that's kind of engagement.

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And we do that

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and he does that on the same side

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of the employee awareness piece.

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Like we need to keep accessibility

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top of mind with our employees.

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And so, Joel is very involved

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in our Global Accessibility Awareness Day activities

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in May,

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certainly works with our

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My Abilities Employee Resource Group

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and works on things

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for National Disability Employment Awareness month

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in October, et cetera.

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And so that's engagement,

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product capabilities kind of speak for themselves

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once I tell you the types of products that we have.

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So of course,

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making sure that whatever mobile applications

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we have in the app stores are as inclusive

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as we can make them at any given time.

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And that's supporting the product groups

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and helping them with testing

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or requirements, et cetera,

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same thing with web experiences, right.

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Web Content Accessibility Guidelines,

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2.1 double A conformance criteria is our target.

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But then on the other side of product capabilities,

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we put out a lot of hardware and cable set top boxes.

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We're now partnered with high sense

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to manufacture the XClass Smart TV.

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It's a TV that has a 43 or a 50 inch model.

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It's available today in Walmart.

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And so of course,

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we have to make that TV

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as inclusive as we can, right.

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And again, it's a journey.

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So what we launched with today

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in the first generation of that product,

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we're gonna evolve that over time, right.

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So that's a built-in piece,

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same thing with set top boxes.

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Soon, we're gonna be talking

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about a new large button remote control

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that we have for people with dexterity challenges

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or visual impairments.

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And so, I think you can see there,

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the product capability side of the house,

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we were the first in our industry

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to launch an accessible set top box interface for the blind.

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We have a talking guide that we call voice guidance

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and that feature,

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the voice guidance feature allows someone like myself,

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who is blind to navigate the X one

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and flex user interface.

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So, you know, navigating the electronic program guide,

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pick what you wanna watch on TV.

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Navigating our video On-Demand library,

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et cetera, et cetera,

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setting and playing back a DVR recorded.

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So that just kind of gives you an example.

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And then the third piece,

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and then I'll be quiet,

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and let you get a word in Edgewise

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on your own podcast

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is infrastructure.

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And so what are the tools

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that our developers need to be able to deliver

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on Comcast's Commitment

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to building inclusive products and experiences

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for both employees and customers.

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The requirements, design patterns,

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I have a small design team within my organization

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that helps us there on that front.

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You know, we have a lab,

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really more of a showcase suite

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on our innovation floor

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that we can bring employees

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and outside guests into,

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and show them the types of technologies

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that individuals with disabilities use,

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but also our products,

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and here, we can bring people in

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and work on projects.

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And say, okay,

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hey, here's a new product.

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How do we want to go make this conclusive?

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So that really gives you a pretty broad overview.

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Obviously, there are more things than that.

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But in general,

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those are the three pillars

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and examples of how those pillars work.

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- Well, I really appreciate that glimpse

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into what appears to be very comprehensive

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and robust approach to accessibility at Comcast.

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And I think, I want maybe check in

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with a couple of those items in more detail,

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a little bit later.

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One of the things with this program also,

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is to learn how people have found their way

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into embracing accessibility as a profession.

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And so, maybe, you could share with us,

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kind of go back in time

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and where your lived life,

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your work life first started having experiences

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that led you on the path to where you are today.

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- Sure.

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So I'm the youngest of four boys,

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I was born blind,

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the rest of my brothers are sighted.

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Grew up in Southington, Connecticut.

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So basically, a suburban community

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was mainstreamed through public schools,

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went on to Major in Communications

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at Boston College.

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Along the way,

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did things that kids do.

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You know, played drums in the marching band,

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had a rock band on the side,

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still played drums today.

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Also, saxophone.

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So there's some music background there.

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You know, pretty normal childhood,

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I would say.

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Obviously, being mainstream through public schools

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had vision teachers come in

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from the state of Connecticut Board of Education Services

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for the blind to teach braille skills,

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orientation, and mobility.

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All of that.

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So that's the quick five second version

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of kind of the child years.

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But then in Boston College,

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Majored in Communications,

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thought I was gonna do a career in radio

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and actually started out

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doing work for a radio reading service in Connecticut.

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And then for a brief period,

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at a news talk station in Hartford,

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WPOP was a news talk station at the time,

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believe it's a sports station now.

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And kind of worked

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as a network producer

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for a statewide news network that we had.

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And, you know,

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having gone to school in Boston,

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I really,

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and this is before the days of Uber,

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et cetera,

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really saw the independence

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that I was able to have

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in a different way in Boston

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than I was where I grew up.

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And where I grew up,

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you had to drive everywhere right.

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In Boston, I could jump on the tee

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and pretty much get anywhere I wanted

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or taxis were certainly more plentiful at the time.

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Again, predating Uber and Lyft,

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and ride share as a practice.

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And so, in going back to Boston,

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trying to find a radio gig,

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one of the folks in my network,

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a friend of mine says,

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hey, have you heard of this service

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called Descriptive Video Service?

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And I hadn't heard of it.

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And I said, yeah,

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what's that?

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And they say, well,

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they make television and movies accessible

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to the blind

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by inserting narrated description

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into the natural pauses of the program dialogue.

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And they're pioneering this at WGBH,

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which is the public broadcaster in Boston.

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They said, you might want to go check it out.

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Maybe, there's something there for you too.

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So I got connected

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to the executive director

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of that organization at the time,

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who just happened to be a fellow alum

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of Boston College.

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And so, a 30-minute informational interview

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ended up turning

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into an hour long conversation.

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And then all of a sudden,

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job openings were discussed

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and threw my hat in the ring,

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and was fortunate enough to get a job

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at Descriptive Video Service

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as an outreach coordinator.

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And that's the beginning

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of my accessibility career,

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kind of put radio to the side at that point

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and started working

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on the descriptive video service efforts

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as an outreach coordinator.

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Went from there to another R and D group

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within the same media access group at WGBH,

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co-authored guidelines under federal grants

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for educational multimedia,

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and how to make that accessible.

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Led a federal grant

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on making set top boxes accessible,

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who knew that so many years later,

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I'd actually be making a set top box accessible

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for a large cable company.

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So things kind of went full circle.

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At that R and D group,

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we had a business partner program.

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And so, we would offer accessibility consulting services

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to corporations.

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And the consulting fees would be turned back

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into help fund our R and D efforts

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to make next gen multimedia

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and other media services accessible.

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And so, I was tapped

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to manage the consulting relationship

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that we had with America Online at the time, AOL.

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And then AOL was looking

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for a full-time accessibility director.

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And fortunately,

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through having been there consultant on accessibility,

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I was tapped

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to be their second director of accessibility.

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Stayed there for 10 years,

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did some interesting work at AOL.

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And then in 2012,

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again, through my network.

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So this really speaks to the value of networking.

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You know, I learned about the Comcast job

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and I've been here just over 10 years

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and it's been a fun ride ever since.

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- Well, yeah.

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Going back to the work,

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let's see you before AOL,

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you went from working with the,

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it was WGBH, I believe you said,

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and then-

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- That's correct.

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- Was AOL after that.

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So I think around that time,

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that was probably the time

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that the W3C WCAG

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a things were first coming out.

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I think a lot-

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- Absolutely.

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- To me, that's when I got involved.

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That's when I think a lot

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of things started happening

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in terms of making accessible technology more mainstream.

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You know, was that something you were aware of,

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when you were involved

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in the work with radio and going into a AOL

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or was it something

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that came about as you got involved

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in the tech industry?

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- Yeah.

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Once I went to WGVH,

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I started working in their media access group.

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So radio was kind of not the focal point.

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And so absolutely,

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we were aware and was even involved

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in some of the W3C work.

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I can remember several CSUN conferences sitting in

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on the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group,

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when Gregg Vanderheiden and Wendy Chisholm

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were co-chairs of the initial set of guidelines.

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Judy Brewer, of course,

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that the W3C was based at MIT.

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And so, Judy Brewer was from Massachusetts.

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And obviously,

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WGBH being in Massachusetts,

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got to know Judy pretty well,

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actually knew her,

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in her prior role

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to the W3C way of accessibility initiative.

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And so, you know,

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we were definitely involved in that work.

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You know, some folks at GBH more than I was,

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I was kind of more

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on the outreach side at the time,

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and then writing guidelines and consulting.

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But certainly was very involved at points.

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You know, you mentioned

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you had John Gunderson on the podcast

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and certainly worked with him.

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John shared the user agent guidelines back in the day.

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And so, I was involved in that.

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At AOL, worked with people

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like Rich Swartzfager and others.

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When Rich and the team were leading

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the accessible Rich internet application area work.

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We founded a group that AOL sponsor

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that was called the DHTML style guide.

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And we were looking at, okay,

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you can make these widgets accessible,

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but we gotta define the keyboard behavior

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for how should a tree view perform on the web.

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And we were trying to align

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what the types of widgets

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we were seeing appear on the web.

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We were trying to align

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the keyboard interaction behavior

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with what was kind of commonplace

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in the desktop environment.

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So certainly,

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definitely touched W3C activities

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in many different ways,

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either hosted events,

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sat in guidelines, meetings,

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the DHTML style group at AOL.

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We also founded something

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called the Internet Caption Forum,

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which really was trying to bring a lot

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of the Internet companies together,

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the Yahoos and Googles, and AOLs,

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and folks like that.

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And even some traditional media companies to say,

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hey, how do we really make captions work

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on the Internet?

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And, you know, SMPTE time text was a result

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of some of that efforts.

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And, you know, now today,

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we have web VTT and TTML,

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and some of these other text formats for SRT files,

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for rendering closed captions and things like that.

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So I've been like involved

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in one way or another,

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either as a bystander or active participant

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in many of these areas.

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- Oh, well, it's really interesting

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to hear you talking about that.

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You know, Boston was such so much at the Nexus

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of early web codification,

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if maybe people aren't familiar

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with all that went on there,

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especially as Tim Burners-Lee began to lead efforts.

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And then you also mentioned Rich Swartzfager,

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who I had interviewed for this, his episode.

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He hasn't been released yet,

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but all of his work with Aria

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was really

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a lot of amazing work

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that went on at that point.

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So it sounds like you had some communication there.

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And did that into your work at AOL?

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- Oh, absolutely, yeah.

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Rich is a good friend.

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And a lot of the folks in the field are,

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we root for each other.

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We work together.

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I think accessibility is a very collegial space

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to work in,

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even if people work for competing companies,

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we root for each other.

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And we leverage each other's success

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to drive disability inclusion forward

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within our own organizations.

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So absolutely,

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we're bringing that into AOL,

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brought it into Comcast,

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just like everyone else has brought it

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into whatever they're doing

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in the accessibility space,

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in terms of digital accessibility.

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So, you know,

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the WCAG really does serve as the benchmark

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for the various international regulations

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that have web accessibility as a component, right.

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Section 508, references back to it.

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You know, a lot of the European policies

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around accessibility,

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kind of reference back to the WCAG

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and some of these other guidelines.

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So, yeah,

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it was a fun time to be part of that.

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And I was trying to do my part.

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And hopefully,

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I been able to contribute in some way.

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- Well, yeah,

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I totally agree with you

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about community working together.

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You mentioned CSUN.

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And that's certainly a wonderful event

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to attend and be able to learn new things

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and meet a lot of people.

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I was at the-

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I'd missed a couple of years,

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but I was at the most recent one

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that was in Anaheim,

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and it was good to be able to get back

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and be with people again.

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So it sounds like you were,

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this for a lot of this time,

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you were also able to be involved in the community

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and getting involved at conferences,

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and things like that.

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- Absolutely.

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Yeah, no question about it.

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- And so then,

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it was probably a whirlwind of things,

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going on at AOL

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and then into your work at Comcast.

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You know, when I reflect on things

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that I've seen change in the past 20 years,

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there's some things that I think are amazing.

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Like the amount of knowledge and technology

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that's been developed about accessibility

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is really incredible.

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On the other hand,

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if I think back to 1998

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and first working on it,

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I kind of thought things,

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certain things would've been farther

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along than they are 22 years later.

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So I'm just wondering,

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if you have any perspectives on that,

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starting at, was it WPOP.

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You know, all the way up till today,

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are there some things

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that you're surprised have gotten

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to where they are today,

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or maybe challenges that you still think

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we need to be concerned about?

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- Well, we always need to be concerned, right?

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I don't think an accessibility professionals work

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is ever done

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because there's always gonna be a new technology.

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Now we're talking about XR,

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accessibility, VR, AR.

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And I know some really good people

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are thinking about that.

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And hopefully,

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I'll get a chance

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to get more connected to that over time.

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I got my hands full here.

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But I think we're gonna start to see

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that effort become more pervasive.

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And so the accessibility professional's work

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is never done.

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And even stuff that's more commonplace,

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like how to make a website accessible

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or how to build an accessible mobile app.

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You know, we need greater consistency

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and delivery of that, right.

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And that's why I said at the top,

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that accessibility really is a journey.

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It's not a destination.

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And I think every one of us,

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working in large companies would tell you

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that it takes time.

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I think the good news is,

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that I think we're really

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at a turning point.

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And I think we've been saying this now

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for maybe a little bit over a year,

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certainly the pandemic may have had some,

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slowing effect on it.

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Of course, we all want things

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to be further along, right.

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And we know that there are many gaps,

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but if you think about the number of companies

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that are focusing on accessibility now,

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of course, we would love more.

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But I think we have to take a step back and say,

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those of us who have been in this field,

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even before it was really,

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able to be considered a field,

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have had impact.

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And the advocates and the consumers certainly,

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and government officials,

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everyone has got their thumbprint

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on some aspect of this, right.

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I would say that the 21st Century Communications

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and Video Accessibility Act played a big role

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in bringing a lot

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of the telecom companies to the table.

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In ways that perhaps, they hadn't been before.

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You know, we start to see financial

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and pharmaceutical,

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and insurance,

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and all sorts of other industries,

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really leaning in.

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And I think what's also helping this

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move forward is,

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companies can't find enough talent

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to do the work that needs to get done.

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And we both know, Joe,

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that people with disabilities

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are a vastly untapped talent pool.

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And, you know, that's of course,

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gonna play a role

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because you gotta make the employee experience the tools

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that people need to do their work accessible.

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So, yes,

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it's taken longer than,

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perhaps any of us would have hoped.

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But I think we have to take a step back

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and look at it,

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and say,

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we are definitely making progress.

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And I think one of the challenges is,

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the disability community

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is a fragmented community.

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My needs as a blind user are different

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than someone who is deaf

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versus someone with a physical disability.

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And so, we don't often find

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the disability community speaking

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with one collective voice

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like we do within other diverse communities.

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And so, you know,

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that takes a while too,

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to kind of get companies to figure out

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how to and other organizations.

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Obviously, we've seen challenges

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in academia as well.

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But I think, much brighter days are ahead.

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And I think we should hopefully start

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to see more acceleration now.

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So I would like to think,

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five years from now,

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we'll be much further along

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from where we are today than say,

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where we are today to five years ago.

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But I think,

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if I look even in my own industry,

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when I started at Comcast in June of 2012,

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there weren't a lot

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of traditional cable companies

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in the space.

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We didn't have a Prime video, you know.

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Netflix was probably still shipping DVDs

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as the majority of their business.

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You know, Smart TVs hadn't come into real popularity

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the way they are today.

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And a lot of those devices now

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have accessibility built-in, right,

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to some degree or another.

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So, you know,

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yes, we want progress to be faster.

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But I think if you start

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to look back over the past decade

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plus you can see where advocates government

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and industry have all had a positive impact

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on driving disability inclusion forward.

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And I think tying it more effectively

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to very active DE and I,

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diversity, equity, inclusion efforts

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will also help move this forward

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and there's work to be done there for sure.

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- Well, I certainly agree

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that a lot has accelerated in the past few years.

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I see that with job listings and opportunities

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for people in accessibility.

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One of the things that you mentioned

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is something that has come up

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in this podcast a few times,

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and that's related to having people with disabilities

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involved in the accessibility,

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design and development process.

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And right at the beginning,

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you mentioned the mantra about-.

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- Nothing about us, without us.

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- Nothing about us, without us.

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And unfortunately,

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I think in a lot of organizations,

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the infrastructure isn't there

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for people with abilities

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to be able to compete

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and have the same work tools

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that are available to others

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in the organization.

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And personally,

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I see that as a real block

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or an impediment

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that we need to be able to solve.

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I think culturally,

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how things are promoted

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within an organization is important.

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Just the fact that you have a title

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of vice president of accessibility.

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I think, that's a strong indicator

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that there's a culture

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from the higher levels of the organization

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about accessibility.

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But I really do think

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that there needs to be more

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equitable opportunities

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for everyone to be able to participate

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in this professional practice.

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- Yeah.

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I mean, I think organizations

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like IAAP have certainly played a big role.

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Obviously, we've talked a lot

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about the web accessibility initiative.

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You know, I think we see a lot of disability organizations

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doing some great work.

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I'm on the board of disability

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in a B2B organization.

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And they're bringing companies together.

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We have the valuable 500,

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Caroline Casey and team doing work.

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So I think we're, you know.

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And there are many other organizations

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that are doing work.

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It's always dangerous

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when somebody in my role starts to try

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and mention organizations.

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'Cause inevitably,

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I'm gonna leave somebody out

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and not make someone happy.

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So, you know,

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if I didn't mention your organization,

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certainly, value the work that you're doing,

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the Consumer Technology Association,

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I'm on the Board

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of the Consumer Technology Association Foundation.

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They're doing some great work

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and helping

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get nonprofits connected to technology,

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fostering opportunities for innovation.

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So I think we have a lot more visibility

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on this area than we've had.

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You know, probably when you and I started this

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in the early to mid 90s.

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But yeah, and we still know

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that there's a far too high unemployment rate

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of individuals with disabilities.

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And there's work to be done.

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You know, I think an organization

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like teachaccess.org

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and starting to bring accessibility

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into computer science curriculum

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or digital accessibility

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into computer science curriculum

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is great.

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Comcast isn't part of that yet.

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But that's something

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that I hope to be able

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to make happen over time.

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So, you know,

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I think we see a lot

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of different areas of focus,

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all driving toward that same goal.

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And you're right.

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We need more individuals

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with disabilities in the workplace,

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helping folks who are designing their experiences,

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whether it be digital

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or otherwise physical, et cetera,

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to really offer that guidance.

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And so, you know, I agree.

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And I think,

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we need more opportunities.

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I don't have the answer completely,

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but I just know

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that we gotta keep working at it.

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- Well, I think as you mentioned,

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there's a lot of good optimism

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to be having about things

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as we move into the future.

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And this has been,

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I think we've covered quite a lot-

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- I think so.

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- in the time for this podcast.

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And I appreciate all of your insights

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and historical background about things.

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And I wanna thank you for being part of this.

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And look forward to hopefully meeting you

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in the future at accessible event.

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- Likewise, Joe, thanks for the opportunity.

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Keep up the great work with the podcast

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and we'll see you down the road.

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- All right.

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About the Podcast

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Digital Accessibility
The People Behind the Progress

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About your host

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Joe Welinske

Serving as Accessibility Director at Blink is Joe's main activity. Blink is devoted to helping ensure that digital products and services can be used by everyone. As Director, Joe is responsible for helping Blink's practitioners to build accessibility into everything they do. He also evangelizes the need for accessibility with Blink's clients and partners.
Joe is a co-organizer of the Seattle Inclusive Design and Accessibility meetup group and he serves as the Secretary of the King County Metro Paratransit Advisory Committee.