Episode 7

A Little Yellow Sticky Note With the Word Accessibility on It

Lori Samuels, NBCUniversal, Accessibility Director

Lori talks about her early exposure to the discrimination her disabled sister experienced in school. She describes her professional introduction to accessibility working with consumer multimedia software and then helping to build the accessibility program at Intuit. 

Mentioned in this episode:

Info about Accessibility at Blink

Transcript
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- Hello, this is Digital Accessibility,

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The People Behind The Progress.

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I'm Joe Welnske, the creator and host of this series

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and the accessibility professional myself.

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I find it very interesting as to how others

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have found their way into this profession.

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So let's meet one of those people right now.

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And hear about the journey.

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(soft music)

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All right, well, here we go

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with another one of our interviews

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with accessibility professionals.

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And today I am pleased to be talking to Lori Samuels.

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Hello Lori.

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- Hi Joe, how are you?

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- Yeah, everything's going well in my Vashon Island,

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a home office, which is near the Blink Seattle Headquarters.

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Where are you talking to us from today?

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- Yeah, so I'm from, I mean, Logan, Utah,

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a little town called Logan Utah.

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Home of Utah State University and just a pretty spot, Utah.

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- Well, I'm glad we were able to have you here

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to talk about your experiences with accessibility

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and why don't we just start

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with you talk a little bit about

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what you're doing right now?

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- Yeah, sure.

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So currently I am the Accessibility Director

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at an NBC Universal that's under Comcast as well.

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I work closely with the Comcast accessibility team

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and NBC Universal is actually comprised

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of a lot of different businesses.

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So it's a really interesting role.

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I get to work with sports

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with streaming apps like Peacock

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and also entertainment and film,

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television and news as well.

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So, and also our parks to me.

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So lots of fun.

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- Yeah, I'm sure that there's a quite

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a lot of accessibility activities going on there.

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So like what's a typical like day in the life for you

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that work or maybe a week in the life?

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Are there any things that you're always having to deal with?

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- Well, lot of it is initially, you know,

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kind of raising awareness around accessibility,

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what it is in the digital space

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with all websites and mobile apps.

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Again, I don't come from a broadcast

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or media industry background,

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so I've been also my own education and learning about

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accessibility considerations

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for media in broadcast television, et cetera.

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But typically I would just work with digital product leaders

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around training, you know, engaging on looking

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at the current accessibility and how we can improve that

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make improvements, roadmap it, prioritize it.

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Also do a lot of work over and kind of the DEI side

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and culture and HR,

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work with our disability inclusion

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focused employee resource group called My Abilities.

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So lots of different sort of irons in the fire,

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but a lot of fun.

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- Well, we'll come back and dig in some of the things

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you're working on today,

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but one of the purposes of this activity is to find out

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how people got to where they are today and accessibility.

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So maybe we'll go back in time now

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and you can sort of pick out some of those early experiences

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or milestones that started to lead you to a accessibility.

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- Right, well, I will have to go way back

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to a very long time ago to my childhood.

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And just tell you about

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I guess my connection with disability starts in my childhood

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with my older sister who has cerebral palsy.

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We grew up, we also have two brothers

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and we grew up in Boston and the 1960s and '70s.

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And at the time of course the Americans

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with Disabilities Act had not been passed into law yet.

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So my sister did not attend Boston public schools

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like my brothers and I did.

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She went to a separate school.

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And so I think I was aware from a very young age

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of the segregation and discrimination

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and othering that my sister experienced

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and her friends as well.

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It also on a positive note,

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I played and hung around with kids with disabilities

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because they were just my sister's friends.

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So I got an early opportunity to kind of, you know,

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interact with and play with those kids, which was great.

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So then we'll fast forward a little bit to my college years,

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I decided to major in computer science at Boston University,

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ended up getting my bachelor's

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and master's degrees together in computer science

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and went out and started building work

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for a little company that was building consumer software.

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So we were built, we were writing code,

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you know, releasing products,

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back in the days of DOS and Apple II computers.

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So this was again very long time ago,

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but, you know, so I started my life

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and my career as a software engineer.

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I then moved to California a few years later,

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about five years later,

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moved to Northern California in the Bay Area

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and ended up working

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for a company called Broderbund Software,

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which probably is best remembered as being a large consumer

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educational software company

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that specialized in multimedia CD-ROM software.

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So this is all still pre-internet.

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I joined and I became the engineering director there,

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and I was working specifically

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on home productivity products, like the print shop,

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which is sort of our big flagship product at the time.

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And it was there that I started getting more interested in

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what was the early days of technical accessibility,

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meaning this was now.

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So now we're about 1993ish

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and the ADA had been passed into law.

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So the Americans with Disabilities Act was now a law.

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And what that meant is that kids with disabilities,

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unlike my sister's experience,

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were now starting to go to mainstream public schools.

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And I started doing some volunteer work

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with a computer lab that was testing out

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different types of assistive technology

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or adaptive devices that were attaching to regular computers

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like adaptive keyboards and track balls

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that kids could more easily manipulate instead of with less

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fine motor control than a mouse.

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And so this was the early days of assistive technology

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and I was working for again,

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kind of a popular software company.

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So I started thinking about how could we make sure

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that our products, which kids loved to play with,

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and there was schools could work with these different

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devices and peripherals.

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And I came up with this great idea

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that if we just followed standards,

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that would somehow make it easier to be compatible

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with these new devices.

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So, and I'm joking, of course, you know,

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there really weren't any standards at the day

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'cause this was all fairly new technology.

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So I started going to conferences like CSUN

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and closing the gap back in the 1990s.

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And it was kind of funny because Broderbund and Microsoft

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were really the only two mainstream software companies

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that were showing up at these conferences

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back in at that time,

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everything else was just was assistive technology

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and adaptive, you know, quite well,

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early screen readers and tele tools.

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And there's other things like that, which again,

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we're looking at how can we make these personal computers

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usable for people with different types of disabilities.

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And so that was the Genesis of my entry into accessibility.

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- Well, I mean, that's really fascinating.

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I started working when the world wide web consortium

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came out with the web accessibility initiative,

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but you know, this things you're talking about predate that,

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and yeah, it's really fascinating thing about

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working with assistive devices at that point in time.

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So, I mean, you were really, you know,

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out there at the forefront of things.

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So then you kind of what happened in that next stage,

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you know, eventually we did start to get to a place

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with standards where you still working

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with accessibility all through that time?

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- It not consistently, but, you know, sort of, you know,

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again, at that time there wasn't any such thing as a career

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and accessibility really,

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we were just going and we're sort of going in and out of it

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or trying to raise awareness.

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But so, you know, for example,

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I was working at a couple of .coms during the .com boom,

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out in the Bay Area,

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just kind of leading engineering teams

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and doing technical program management.

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So not particularly accessibility focused,

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but then I got an opportunity after taking a little time off

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to raise kids and be home.

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I came back to work in about 2010, '11,

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and joined into it.

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And I was interviewing

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for a technical program manager kind of role.

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But when I was interviewing with the CTO there,

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the chief technology officer,

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it was a little yellow sticky note on his desk.

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And it just had the word accessibility on it.

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I thought this is a sign from the universe.

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So I just asked him, I said,

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"So are you doing anything with accessibility?"

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And he said,

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"No, you know, legal has been asking us to, you know,

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to kinda pay more attention to this".

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And I said, "Well, I'd be happy to help you

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start up a program".

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We said, "Okay,

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we should probably have you do that".

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So I got the chance to start

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into its global accessibility program

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kind of from scratch back then.

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And that further kind of just cemented my interest

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and passion and love of all things accessibility.

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So I got to do that at Intuit.

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We had some fun, you know,

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wonderful progress and projects that got to work on there.

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We worked on QuickBooks specifically to really try to make

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QuickBooks more compatible with screen readers,

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so that folks who wanted to kind of independently manage

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their small business finances could do that.

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So it was a very exciting and very community-based project

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with some great executive sponsorship.

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So, you know, was a wonderful experience doing that

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and also trying to get the program off the ground

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and handed it over to the fabulous Ted Drake

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who's now has just taken it to new heights

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and just I so admire what Intuit is doing in that space.

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So really proud to have started that

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and left it in such good hands.

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- You know, I'm looking forward

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to have an appointment scheduled

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with Ted Drake for next month.

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So I'm looking forward to that.

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And I know about that relationship.

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So that's, that's great.

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I love the anecdote about the sticky note

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with accessibility because you know,

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those little things sometimes are the pivots

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that change so much.

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And then you mentioned the person

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that you were interviewing with at the time

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it brought up the compliance issue.

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And of course that's where a lot of organizations,

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maybe the C-suite first starts to seriously think about it,

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but then, you know,

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we know that there's so much possible return on investment

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for people that maybe have been shut out

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of using digital products and services.

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And so I'm sure into it,

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you know, was able to reap the benefits from that as well.

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- Yeah, and, you know,

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I can't emphasize enough how important it was for us

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at the time at Intuit to connect with the customers

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who needed us to work on accessibility

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in QuickBooks in this case

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it was so essential to them.

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And they had been, you know,

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frankly kind of asking for a while,

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and it hadn't until someone came in

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and started pulling it all together

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and making the right things happen.

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We had a wonderful team and an engineering team in India

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that was really passionate about trying to improve this.

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But what really struck home to me was

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we need to bring the voices of disabled customers

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to the table and make sure that they're heard by leadership,

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because that was what turned things around

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once leadership understood that they were, you know,

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there was a segment of their consumer base

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that they weren't serving well,

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it really changed things again to their credit,

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to the leader's credits

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will take that seriously and actually invest in fixing it.

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So that was a great experience.

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And after Intuit I got the opportunity to join Microsoft

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as a consultant and worked in different

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product organizations there entirely in accessibility.

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So again, I've sort of seen this transition

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where accessibility has become a field that you can work in,

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which is great.

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Didn't used to be, but now it is.

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And I'm just really feel so privileged

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that I get the opportunity to do that and grateful for that.

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- Well, that brings us kind of up to date

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to where you're at now.

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And I mean, the organization that you work for,

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I mean, there just must be just enormous

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amounts of opportunities and level of work to do

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to be accessible in that space,

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where there are any particular passion projects

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that you have on going on right now, or any things that are,

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you know, taking up the majority of your time?

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- I'm not necessarily taking up all my time,

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but something that has been something that's just been truly

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delightful to be involved in is we,

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and it started before I got here, but it was underway,

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but it was very happy to support this,

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the work that we're doing, that NBC Comcast,

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NBC universal is doing to provide live audio description

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for certain premiere live special events

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and the Olympics and Paralympic games.

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So we work with a company called Descriptive Video Works,

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who are fabulous,

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and they actually have people describing the visual context

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for folks who are blind and visually impaired

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to be able to understand what's happening in the sports

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or in, for example, the Macy's day parade

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or the 4th of July fireworks

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or the inauguration, presidential inauguration.

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So we've kind of crafted the approach to that

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and all of the technology that goes into making that happen.

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And it's been really well received by the blind community

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and advocacy organizations.

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So proud, very proud of the company

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for the work that they're doing in that space.

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You know, there's always room to improve in accessibility,

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always, always, but I think that's an example of where

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we've intentionally been inclusive

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and found a way to make something better

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and more accessible.

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And so, you know, again,

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it's just been a really fun thing to understand,

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to get involved in.

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- And are there any things that you're looking forward to

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or thinking are important moving to the future?

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Because I know I haven't been attentive to this space

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as long as you have,

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but, you know, I think back 20 some years ago,

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and in some ways it's amazing

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what has developed and what's available in accessibility.

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And then in other ways, you know,

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I really thought we'd be farther along than we are today.

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Like, you know, just based on my own perspectives.

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Do you have any thoughts about that?

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- Oh, I have thoughts on that.

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(laughing)

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Just as a general thing, you know, I think that, gosh,

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not specific necessarily to my current role,

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but I'll get to that in a second.

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I think that in accessibility

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and one of the things I'm excited about

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what Joe Devon and Jennison are doing in

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with the Global Accessibility Awareness Day Foundation

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is to begin focusing on some of the foundational,

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unintended building blocks of the web.

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You know, it's still such a wild west

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from a technology standpoint in, you know,

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on the internet where there's so many different tools,

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there's frameworks, there's libraries, there's JavaScript,

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there's all these stuff.

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There's not a consistent way of building websites.

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And so, as a result, we see a lot of websites

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that are inaccessible.

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The vast majority of websites unfortunately

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have accessibility problems.

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I think we have to shift left

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and not just in terms of educating our product organizations

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about how to do things right with accessibility,

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but we also have to shift the tooling left.

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We have to make sure that anybody

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who's using tools to build a website,

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have accessibility checkers baked in,

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have that, you know, catch those problems early.

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Let the people know that who are building the cyber,

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designing the site that,

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Hey, we're going to flag the problem for you here.

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And you can, here's how you can take care of it.

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I think we could have much more intelligent tooling

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in the build process, in the design process,

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in with those tools.

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And that's something that, you know, looking at again,

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what the GAAD foundation

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is doing is looking at huge like React.

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How can we make these building blocks more accessible?

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It doesn't solve for everything,

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but we could solve a lot of things upstream

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from where we're solving them today,

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this idea of building a whole production website

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and then finding out after the fact that it's inaccessible.

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It's obviously not as safe sustainable model

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because we haven't succeeded in doing that.

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So that's my little thoughts on that.

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So I think the opportunity within media and television

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and film and news and sports is also one

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that goes beyond accessibility.

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It gets into things

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like authentic disability representation.

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How can we make sure that disability is represented

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authentically and with real casting and in front of,

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and behind the camera?

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So that is an exciting space.

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It's not my real house per say.

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It's not a technical issue,

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but just being inside

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and being a disability inclusion advocate

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from inside the company is a really fantastic place to be

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and see that there's already really great work

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happening in this space at NBC Universal and elsewhere.

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So that's a fun part about being in this space.

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- Well, your passion for the subject definitely stands out

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And it's a great to have an advocate like you involved

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in continuing to push things forward for accessibility.

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And I appreciate you taking the time today to chat with me.

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Maybe we'll meet up together at a conference

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when we actually do that stuff in person again.

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- Absolutely, that's great and my pleasure,

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I'm always happy to talk about this

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and just encourage people to learn more, it's a practice.

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It's something that you can just get better at over time.

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So don't be afraid to start.

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And I hope more people get into accessibility

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and build a more inclusive world.

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- Well, thanks a lot, Lori.

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About the Podcast

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Digital Accessibility
The People Behind the Progress

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About your host

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Joe Welinske

Serving as Accessibility Director at Blink is Joe's main activity. Blink is devoted to helping ensure that digital products and services can be used by everyone. As Director, Joe is responsible for helping Blink's practitioners to build accessibility into everything they do. He also evangelizes the need for accessibility with Blink's clients and partners.
Joe is a co-organizer of the Seattle Inclusive Design and Accessibility meetup group and he serves as the Secretary of the King County Metro Paratransit Advisory Committee.